User talk:Alianin/Archive 1

This is an archive of User talk:Alianin.

Image/Article Categories
Hey Alianin, thanks for the work tackling the categories. It's a daunting task we'd been avoiding for a bit, good to see someone taking it on! Varga 15:57, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Organizing is one thing I do enjoy doing. Thanks! -- 18:21, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Guild page categorization
Sorry, I didn't see what you were doing, but you are doing it wrong. The categorization should not have been removed from the guild page template, so I have replaced it. Don't bother going back and removing all the ones you've hard coded, but please stop hard coding them. Thanks! --Wynthyst 15:52, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand what you are trying to do, however, there is no way you are going to get everyone to complete their guild infobox the same way, so limiting the options is not a good way to have it autocategorize. It's better to have more options than less. I think I have resolved the categorization for Republic/Empire, by adding back the original options, as well as the "Empire" option. I can tell you from experience, no one is going to want to have to police guild pages... so we do the best we can to make them as simply and as automatic as possible, and let it go at that. --Wynthyst 16:14, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Understood. -- 16:51, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Abilities lists
Why are you removing all the formatting from the abilities lists?

Please replace it, as the current listing style you are using is HORRIBLE. -- Wynthyst talk 05:29, 19 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I was going to come back around and apply more uniform formatting to the section so it'd match other pages. I have fixed the lists. -- 23:02, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

No subzones in the game
I've found there's a need to use unique terminology for this game. For example, there are no zones in SWTOR, so there cannot be any subzones. I believe we'll still want to use traditional MMORPG terminology as redirects, but we should probably let SWTOR-specific terms take priority whenever possible. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 14:50, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * What is the appropriate term to use instead of subzones? Regions? I was basing it off of what DarthHater DB said. -- 14:52, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * You know, I'll have to do some checking; I was thinking regions was the appropriate term, but I don't recall it being used anywhere. We do know that our "zones" are instead planets in this game, so it could be any number of things. I'll get back to you. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 14:58, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok. I can change it on the template once we know for sure. -- 15:01, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I was finally able to log in; the servers have been down all day. The appropriate term used is simply "Area", as defined in the game's map window. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 03:13, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Made the adjustment. Thanks! -- 15:55, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Mission infobox
I'm wondering if mission rewards should be included in the infobox. Some missions have a lot of awards, and they are unlikely to play nice with any sort of infobox documentation. I might be better to simply include them within the body of an article.

I've also got something planned for mission chains, something a bit more useful than next/previous. On several projects I've worked on I've implemented a mission chain list. You can see it in use on the Champions Online Wikia. This game doesn't have many chained missions, save the story lines, but a similar structure may prove beneficial. What are your thoughts? -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 05:16, 28 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe we can include just any monetary and commendation reward in the infobox and put the gear in the article. I've noticed the missions tailor the rewards to the class, which is nice but makes for lots of differences.


 * For mission chains, I was thinking we could leave the Previous/Next in the infobox as a quickview and then have a section in the article for mission progression. -- 13:30, 28 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd rather include all the quest rewards in the infobox, or none at all. It seems almost disinfomative to do otherwise; new users may not realize when the see rewards in the infobox that there are others only listed in the body of the article.


 * The only concern I have with placing the quest chain within the body of the article is that it will stretch the article vertically. I've found this to be fairly disruptive to an article's design and flow. By placing them within the infobox, it utilizes space that would otherwise remain largely unused, create a stronger right border, and list information alongside the rest of the article. This would improve the article's overall readability, as well as reduce the likelyhood that the article will suffer vertical stretch due to long lists. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 14:40, 28 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we should get some additional input. I'm moving this to the Community talk page. -- 15:20, 28 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Excellent idea. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 15:28, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

License
I wanted to give you a heads up that we actually can't take things from WoWPedia. Code isn't a huge deal, but generally speaking they and this project operate under different licenses. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 16:53, 28 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Only thing I'd really use is code anyway. But they're a fellow Curse site and operate under basically the same license (NC being the only difference), though Wyn did say all Curse sites use the same license. -- 16:58, 28 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Wyn was incorrect, and we have to be careful of this; all Curse projects operate under some form of free content licensing, and most even use Creative Commons licenses. That said, different projects use different variations of these base licenses.


 * WoWPedia's license requires that any work derived from content taken from that project be released under the same license, or a similar license with the same restriction. As our content license doesn't meet either requirement we cannot freely utilize content from WoWPedia. This is the same reason that we cannot take content from Wookieepedia or other Wikia projects and host it here. Regarding code, we'd either need the original creator of the code to bring it here directly, or gain permission from that project's community to bring it over. Of the two options the latter seems to be the better choice, and I imagine it will likely be nothing more than a formality. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 17:05, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Re: Moving NPC articles
Titles of characters can and do change within the progression of the game's plot. A "Lord" in an early part of the game can reappear as a "Darth" at another point in the future. A character's name itself, however, does not change. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 18:26, 28 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, we've got a situation were we can have a general practice with numerous exceptions to that practice, or we can have a general practice with no exceptions.


 * I've always found the latter to be a better idea. By implementing a general practice, with no deviation from that practice, everyone on the project is one the same page. Old and new contributors alike know how information is supposed to be documented. Besides, the title of NPCs and characters isn't part of the topic of the article; the articles document the individual, not the individual's title. We can utilize redirects when needed so that someone running a search for the name as presented in game is led to the correct article. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 19:42, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Template:Missionlink: missions limited to more than one class
Is there any way to set up Template:Missionlink so that it recognizes multiple player classes? Some missions on Tython, for example, can only be completed by a Jedi Knight or a Jedi Consular; a Smuggler or Trooper visiting the world won't even have the option of accepting them. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 23:15, 30 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Added a value for 1 more class since there shouldn't be more than 2 anyway. -- 23:19, 30 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Excellent. Thanks for the added parameter; the template looks great, and I'm looking forward to using it. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 23:46, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Commendation vendors category
I'm not sure if this category is going to serve any real purpose. It's going to end up being filled a large list of NPCs with no way to distinguish between them; if a user were to try finding a specific vendor, he or she would have to start checking the NPCs randomly. If it lacks a purpose, we should probably remove it. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 05:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * It is no less purposeful than Category: Human NPCs. It's purpose is to categorize they type of NPC, or vendor in this case, that the article's subject is. If someone is trying to find a specific vendor, they can look on the Commendation vendor page. -- 05:35, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * If we can't define a purpose, it should be removed. Or broken up. We should never have a category that lacks a purpose. Category: Human NPCs serves as a collection of setting-specific names for players to reference when creating characters. Granted that's its only purpose, but it is a purpose that can be utilized within the category.


 * Why do we need to group vendors into a unique subcategory? How is it going to be useful to our readers? These are things we need to clarify. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 16:39, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I would never have thought to look at the Human NPCs category as a reference when creating a character. I guess we have differing views on categories. This is what I'm going by: "A central concept used in categorisation is that of the defining characteristics of a subject."' - Categorization on Wikipedia A vendor or commendation vendor is a defining characteristic of a group of NPCs. -- 16:50, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd also say that vendors can be a useful category. And it can be further broken up e.g. by planet. Curse flame.png Ausir ( talk ) 17:16, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I take my view of categories a step further, to include a concept that's left unspoken in the basic sense: categories need to be useful, else there's no reason to include them at all. A category structure should serve as an index, and as a secondary method of navigating a wiki project.


 * Generally a single defining characteristic is sufficient to make a category useful. The usefulness of these categories is implied, and as a result that purpose does not need to be stated. Usually the articles in a category have distinct names that allow a reader to readily identify information they are looking for. Category:Tython functions in this manner. It includes several articles, but the content of each is easily identifiable and, as a result, navigable.


 * A category like Category:Commendation vendors does not function in this way. Each article has a unique name, but there's no way to tell from the name alone what the articles' contents are. As a result, the function of the category is lost, and might as well not be included; there's little reason to gather articles into like groupings if it serves no purpose, so why waste the time?


 * All this being said, we can strive to further define the structure of these categories and make it useful once again. Breaking it up by planet, as Ausir mentioned, is one way of accomplishing this. We're still going to end up with vague groupings of articles, but they'll be defined by more than one characteristic. The more characteristics we utilize, the clearer the structure, and an article's place within that structure, becomes. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 17:52, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't necessarily agree with your view on usefulness of categories. After all, a category that you might find useless might be more useful to others. The purpose of grouping vendors in a category is simple - being able to quickly find a list of vendors and comparing their wares. And even if "Human NPCs" is useful as a reference for character creation, you can't say the same about categories for all the non-playable species. For me, vendors are definitely an important category from a gameplay standpoint, regardless of whether it's subcategorized (although I do think that having e.g. "Tython vendors" would make sense. Curse flame.png Ausir ( talk ) 17:56, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, I feel vendors are important as well. But we do need to take steps to make the category structure behind it more navigable. You state the purpose of a vendor category is to provide a list of vendors so that one can compare their wares. That's fine, but as things are now the category structure simply does not provide this functionality. The categories are vague, with no way of differentiating the contents of one article from the next; we need to clarify things somewhat.


 * And as a quick aside, though the non-playable species NPC categories don't necessarily help with character creation, they still serve important roles. First, there's a lot to be said about consistency in a project; if there's a need for certain species-specific NPC articles, then we should consider having such a category for all species in the game. Secondly, and more importantly, we're not only documenting the game, but also the EU content around it. These species are definitely part of that EU, and so we should document things such as their appearance, their culture, and even their naming conventions. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 18:12, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

RE: Materials
Yes! This is very exciting seeing these pages come together with great uniformity. I was wondering if this would be a possibility as well, and again I can do the busy-work given a template.

I was just thinking we could create a grid box for the items that can be crafted from materials, that includes item icon, item level, crafting level, name, rarity, and any other information that could be useful. Is this something you could do, maybe using Unknown Microorganism as a template for what others will look like? I'm always amazed at how fast this wiki is coming together! -- Elephunk


 * Do you mean under the section Uses? I'm hoping we can get tooltips going soon so that when you hover over the link to the schematic that you'll get all the info you need without having to clutter up the page or create too much work for ourselves. -- 23:35, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Signature
Wanted to say that I think your sig is awesome, and was wondering if I could borrow some of the coding for one of my own? And if so, beyond creating a sub page for it, is there anything more I need to do to have it show up? Thank you.--Elephunk 04:46, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure thing. I see you already have a sig subpage. Now make a Sig2 subpage that links to the original sig . This makes it so that your sig links to the template and doesn't insert your sig code into every page you sign. Go into your preferences and set your signature to   and check the box underneath. That should do it. -- 05:17, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Here's to see if it worked! (Thanks in advance :D) -- 09:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Pcj
Done. Ausir ( talk ) 12:18, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Tooltip links
Unless Curse installs the DefaultLink extension from Wowpedia (developed by our Foxlit) you'll have to use a template to link to the pages (e.g. our back before the extension was developed, if you recall). Do you have templates like this or what do you want to do? --Pcj 23:51, 9 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Would Template:ItemLink fulfill this need? It's already used within our project, and seems to provide the same basic function as WoWPedia's Template:Loot. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 00:06, 11 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I didn't realize we already had something here and I just created Template:Item. Pesky uncategorized templates. ;) We can use these link templates for now and see if we can get the DefaultLink extension installed. I'll update the sandbox page. Looks like we just need NPC and ability link templates, unless they're already out there somewhere? -- 00:18, 11 December 2011 (UTC)


 * That's my fault; when I get going on a project and I tend to suffer from tunnel vision. Things like categorization and documentation of anything other than my primary goal tend to end up forgotten.


 * I'm not sure if we need to do anything for NPCs, and maybe not even missions. Tooltips of this sort can be extremely intrusive to someone using our project, so it might be best to limit them to things that are truly necessary. They are invaluable for item links, for example, especially when one is compiling a list of items like is done when documenting a vendor store or unique item drop list. Basically, we could limit this to thinks that cannot be compiled in a traditional table; items have too many varied parameters for tabulated presentation in our project, while things like missions and NPCs can be listed in a table without the omission of too much relevant statistical information. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 00:30, 11 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, the point of tooltips is to get a limited amount of vital information from a link without having to go to the page. Stuff like an image and location of an NPC can be helpful when mousing over an NPC link and it saves you the pain of having to click the link, find out what you need, then click back. Same with missions. There's not going to be enough information loaded in the tooltips to be intrusive. -- 00:44, 11 December 2011 (UTC)


 * It's usually the tooltip itself that ends up being intrusive. Over the last couple of months I've found a substantial number of people despise them in general. I can understand why myself; to be honest I've always found them to be a hassle and disruptive to a wiki article. They can be utilized in ways that add a lot of value to a project, such as an item tooltip. I admit they should be used when information cannot easily presented through more traditional methods, but to be honest I hate the things.


 * If there's not enough information contained within a tooltip that it would not be intrusive, then we probably shouldn't include it in the first place. It would be just as simple to provide that information as part of our articles directly. And if the tooltips contain enough information to be intrusive, then they should only be included if there is no other reasonable method of providing that information.


 * Consider the mission link template we currently use. It's very well designed; it defines a mission's level, faction, class restriction, and the mission's name. What else would we need listed? Planet and area could be easily incorporated into a table format within relevant articles. So could the mission giver. What would go into this tooltip that we couldn't easily provide to our users in a different manner? -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 01:06, 11 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Would it be possible to allow the display of these tooltips to be determined by a user's personal css settings? For example, is there a way to set things up so that I could turn off NPC, ability, and mission tooltips, but still see item tooltips? I want to build as much individual customization into this project as possible, and this might be one additional thing that would contribute to that. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 01:23, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The user JS can be used more effectively for that. --Pcj 00:18, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Can users define their own JS? -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 00:48, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That may not be enabled here... --Pcj 00:59, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking about spending more time working with the wiki's infrastructure a bit, maybe this is something I could help on? I was thinking organizing templates, categories, and adding in "how-to" documents. -- 01:44, 11 December 2011 (UTC)


 * There aren't that many uncategorized templates or wanted categories, though there are loads of uncategorized files but every little bit helps :D -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png|19px ]] talk 02:51, 11 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Should be working - let me know if there are any problems, and when/if DefaultLink is enabled. --Pcj 01:40, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Awesome. Thanks again, Pcj! -- 13:37, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Re: SectionBreak template
Adding the whitespace and breaking up the article is the point. The proper use of whitespace is a key element in good design, as is the grouping of content having similar levels of importance. The template forces supplementary sections of an article, such as references, related articles, and external links, to the bottom of the page below the infobox. This not only separates that content from the "meat" of the article, but uses whitespace more appropriately than having an empty area trailing off into nowhere. It helps to better frame the article, and serves to enact several key design principles relating to alignment and positioning. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 00:59, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Merge account?
Hi Alianin. Great site. Is it possible for you to merge this account with user:Kaldris and delete this one? I screwed up and made 2 accounts. Going forward I'll be editting as user:Kaldris. Thanks! P.S. Here is how you do a user merge: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:User_Merge_and_Delete

Edit: Posting from my proper account:Kaldris


 * I forwarded your request to Ausir as I don't have the required privileges to perform the merge. He should get you sorted out soon. =) -- 13:18, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What is the other account name? Nvm, I found it. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png|19px ]] talk 19:27, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Affection
Heya Alianin, as I am completely new to wikis, I'd like to ask, if there is an option to add something like a currency template for affection gain/loss with an icon (light green heart like in game?) and with color variants for + (green?) and - (red?). I think it would be very useful for pages describing companions/gifts & dialogue. Thank you in advance. -- Anny 11:28, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Currently we only have one for alignment gain. If you can track down images to use for it, I can make one. -- 16:30, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I tried to create an icon and uploaded it here [[File:Affection Gain.png]], it's the same icon for gain and loss, so if you could add a + and - and colors (green/red) to the amount (I really don't know how to do it 0:-)), it would be great. -- Anny 17:32, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I created the template. You can see it in use here: Crisis in Galactic City. Let me know if you'd like any changes. -- 18:13, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Looks good! I just didn't think you'd change the icon color. There is actually no "negative" [[File:Affection Loss.png]] affection (unlike in Dragon Age or Dragon Age II), so I thought we could color just the numbers e.g. +15 (green) [[File:Affection Gain.png]] or -30 (red) [[File:Affection Gain.png]]... -- Anny 19:20, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I did it that way as a easier quick visual reference but it can be changed to just green if that's what everyone wants. -- 20:08, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know what everyone wants and I really don't mind if the heart is always green or green/red and you are right that it is easier this way to look at, but I still would like to have the numbers and +/- signs colored as well, would be even easier. (I have no idea how to add colors to text...) Anyway: thank you very much for the template! -- Anny 00:04, 8 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I played around with it and it looks better your way. =P -- 00:43, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

That tool Heaven's Agent
Alianin, I'm fed up with the pretentious, conceited prick Heaven's Agent rolling back and deleting my contributions. Sorry, I'm going to contribute elsewhere. You need to handle pricks like that. Kaldris 03:39, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Slot names
Looks like we have corrected most of the wrong slot names. What should be the correct name for the current "Shield-slot" items? Something like "Offhand-slot armor" perhaps? Ausir ( talk ) 15:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking either Category:Shields or Category:Offhand-slot shields if we want to keep with the naming convention. We'd want to follow suit with generators and foci as well. -- 14:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Re: Crew Skill banner
The plan was always to move them from the front page; the article would be distorted to the point that it would lose its propose if we don't. I also planned to add the tweak you made when finished, but for the purposes of filling the schematic lists I found it easier to exclude that functionality at the moment. I also made a conscious decision not to include autocategorization in the banner; autocategorization hides the categorization process and structure from average users, and trains new users to be lazy. It also often results in improper article sorting and organization.

The current banner design is actually just a placeholder. I'm planning something more polished to be rolled out once the articles are completed, as the crew skill articles will likely become some of the most-used articles on the project. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 18:27, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hold up on the addition of items to the schematic lists. Remember that as wiki editors we're not supposed to add content that is speculation; until verified in game, items should not be added to the lists simply to flesh them out. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 23:19, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Everything I've added is from my character's crafting lists in-game. -- 23:38, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not doubting that, but you haven't verified that the links you're adding lead to the correct items. Several of the articles they link to host non-existent or non-craftible versions of the item, rather than what a crafter can actually produce. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 03:30, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Codex side (Empire or Republic) naming
Codex sometimes applies to both side (Republic and Empire), and sometime to only one. There are also codexes that have their own version for each side like the following exemple:

http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/malaks-attack/1539/ (Republic) http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/malaks-attack-2/1581/ (Empire) But they have the same name. My question is how to name them or have you any advice on this question (knowing that there is already many codexes created with simple name).

Furthermore what about Codex Image naming... Actually all codex entries have been created with a simple image filename like on this page: http://www.wikiswtor.com/Codex/Mos_Ila

But it will become problematic very soon as we also create location, NPC, ..., with the same name. So we should maybe choose a prefix for that kind of image, like you did for codex entry articles(Prefix: Codex/)


 * Well I've just created a double-sided codex: http://www.wikiswtor.com/Codex/Ugnaught. We could keep that kind of article, I mean keep one article for doulbe-sided codex or create two... That's the question ;) Zophar 12:48, 28 February 2012 (UTC)


 * If the codex entry is the same and how to unlock it is different depending on faction, I'd say a single article will do. Just like how you did the Codex/Ugnaught article. If the codex entry is different, make two articles with disambiguation; ie. Codex/Ugnaught (Empire) and Codex/Ugnaught (Republic).


 * As for the codex image naming, I'd suggest a naming scheme like File:Ugnaught codex.jpg. -- 13:22, 28 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with adding "Codex" to the end of the image file name when uploaded in order to distinguish it from future images. I've been using the method for all of my codex uploads, such as those found in Category:Ord Mantell codex images. Just make sure that the image is one that you've personally obtained from the game client and include one of our fairuse licensing templates; is most likely going to be the best of these templates for codex images, and if you need an example of it in use just check any of the images in the category I linked to. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 14:24, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Image upload
Hi Alianin, I was just wandering why did you upload all those images tonight as they already exist (in gif format) -> =,  =. Normally all DB imported items have already their images. I'm sure you have a good reason to do that... Quality? Other? Zophar 21:58, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The .png format scales with better quality in our use of the icons. The .gif files were mass uploaded from DarthHater DB just so we'd have them. Heaven's Agent and I have been slowly replacing them with the better quality ones as we go. It's a slow process since each file has to be reformatted in an imaging program. -- 11:49, 19 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Understood ;). Now still concerning Image upload could you please move File:Highmount_Ridge.jpg to File:Highmount_Ridge_Codex.jpg ? It seems I'm not able to do that with my permissions. Thanks. Zophar 12:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Done! -- 13:04, 22 March 2012 (UTC)